public responses
The intense public interest surrounding the Sisters’ participation in the Selma to Montgomery marches was immediately apparent upon their return to St. Louis. Within a day, Sisters Ernest Marie and Thomas Marguerite were featured on KMOX radio’s Sounding Board program, hosted by Bob Hardy.
The sheer volume of listener calls — approximately 10,000 from within the United States and an additional 500 long-distance — necessitated an unprecedented four-hour extension of the interview.
Courtesy of the Sisters of St. Joseph of Carondelet Consolidated Archives
While the majority of callers expressed support for the Sisters’ activism, opposition surfaced in several key areas:
Firstly, many callers raised concerns about the “two-way street” principle, questioning whether the Sisters would extend the same support to protests involving white people, whether they would tolerate protests at their convent, and whether their actions were justified given reports of crime within Black communities. Concerns were also raised about the potential “breakdown of law and order.”
Furthermore, some callers questioned the Sisters’ actions on religious grounds, inquiring whether their involvement violated the principle of separation of church and state. These critics suggested that the Sisters should focus on more traditional roles, such as educating Black individuals and advocating for increased federal funding for education within Black communities.
See how Sisters Roberta Schmidt (Ernest Marie) and Rosemary Flanigan (Thomas Marguerite) address these callers’ criticisms and articulate their commitment to social justice:
KMOX INTERVIW TRANSCRIPT
Bob Hardy: Hello your question please.
Male Caller: Bob, would you ask the sisters if this does not smart upon separation of church and state? And secondly, doesn't an act of non-violence which leads to violence just as bad as the violence leading to violence?
And my comment is, doesn't the sisters think that if they would stay at home and work on such things as getting Negroes who are qualified into service and fraternal organizations or getting some Negroes who are qualified, or when when their parents want their girls to be married and get on the society pages of our local papers, that this would be a worthwhile project and getting federal aid to education?
And in conclusion, I would like to say that I believe that physical brutality, or death, is a lot less a price to pay than going through life, and not being allowed to enjoy certain basic freedoms that supposedly we are supposed to have, and as long as we're going to have a double set of standards, I cannot really put my faith and heart into this present movement. And I believe when you think about it, we do have a double set of standards for everybody in this nation.
Bob Hardy: All right. Thank you for calling, Sister Ernest Marie. You care to comment?
Sr. Ernest Marie: Yes, I'll try and and wrap this up simply and quickly. What is going on in Selma is our business, because we're all citizens of the United States. He is my neighbor. This whole civil rights issue is a political and a moral issue. There's no difficulty as far as this issue of separation of church and state.
I am a citizen of the United States. I have rights. I want to stand for these rights and give hope and courage to others who do not have them.
I also say that there are many, many avenues of approach to this problem. Demonstration is simply one of them. Education is a tremendous factor. We are doing much in Saint Louis.
Bob Hardy: No further additions or subtractions to be made. Sister Thomas Marguerite?
Sr. Thomas Marguerite: No, I agree with the gentleman that we have a job to do here and I think we're doing it. But I think a day off to go to Selma is like topping on a cake, too.
KMOX INTERVIW TRANSCRIPT
Bob Hardy: Here's our next call. Hello?
Female Caller: Hello Mr. Hardy, I would just like to say to our wonderfully dedicated sisters that I feel the civil rights cause is certainly just, but that the tactics are very wrong, Christ himself admonished civil disobedience.
Even though it was found at that time, many of the laws were unjust.
How much more blessed from a Christian standpoint for the Negro, who has been discriminated against to carry his cross with patience, forbearance, and humility rather than agitate and force their way? How do you justify civil disobedience from a Christian standpoint?
And one more.
Are these dangerous marches and agitating tactics really examples of loving those that persecute you as Christ taght? Thank you.
Bob Hardy: OK. Thank you for calling.
Sr. Thomas Marguerite: If you had been in Brown's Chapel yesterday and heard the the philosophy of non violence explained to us the way it was explained to us by an overall-clad of Baptist minister, I think you would have a different interpretation of what what civil disobedience, the whole non violence movement, what it really entailed. Those men love the people of Selma. They they spoke against - by name - only four people: Governor Wallace, and the committeeman, the mayor, and the sheriff. But the rest of them - and they kept repeating over and over - we may not use - preach - the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and use the tactics of Caesar.
I protest again. I did not think it was a case of civil disobedience. I think it was a case of demonstrating against civil disobedience. And I think that we were doing it in the language of love.
Sr. Ernest Marie: We have to remember that man has a dignity of personal value which no one can take from him. He then has to use whatever means are available to impress this upon the conscience of Americans that there are some individuals whose rights as a human being are not being Respected.
Sr. Thomas Marguerite: And I think Christ would have been a civil rights-er today.
KMOX INTERVIW TRANSCRIPT
Bob Hardy: Hello your question or comment please?
Female Caller: Hi Bob, I was just saying I've been a Catholic all my life, and I don't have any respect for these nuns at all. I think they belong in church, in their own place, in the convent. And if they want to do any praying, they should do it over there. I don't think that's any of their business to go over there and parade like a bunch of fools. I really don't care for that. And what are they going to do about that there um, boy, that was shot? What are them nuns gonna do about these Coloreds that're shootin at teachers - at white teachers? I think they belong in their own place.
Bob Hardy: Alright, ma'am. Thank you very much.
Sr. Thomas Marguerite: I know what will happen to the boy that was shot and I know that the machinery is set up in Saint Louis to take care of things like that. And and the aggression of the Negro on the white or the white on the Negro in Saint Louis. But I know that we can't sit in our convents and pray nor sit in our chapels and kneel in our chapels and pray and expect that all things will be accomplished by prayer alone. There is such a thing - our Lord said - as good works.
Sr. Ernest Marie: If we were unconcerned and indifferent in regard to the welfare of our fellow citizens, we would not be Christian.
While this archival collection includes photographs of the Black communities where the sisters served, it largely lacks direct testimony from Black individuals themselves. Consider the perspective of a self-identified “Negro resident of St. Louis” regarding the sisters’ involvement in Selma:
KMOX INTERVIW TRANSCRIPT
Bob Hardy: And a local call. Hello.
Male Caller: Sir? Mr. Hardy? As a Negro resident of the city of Saint Louis, I would like to express my sincere gratitude to the brave sisters who made the journey to Selma AL to march into protest against the injustice that my southern brothers are subjected to. And I think I speak for the total Negro community when I say that the Negro community I knew was very proud of them. I would also like to make a a comment about the the refusal of the President to speak out on this injustice, and I think that this indicates to the world, and specifically to the Negro people of the country that the president is indifferent to Negro rights and to human rights. And I think that the Negro citizens will remember the President will come the next election. I thank you.
Bob Hardy: Alright, Sir. Thank you very much for calling. Sisters, your comments?
Sr. Thomas Marguerite: I don't have a comment about the the gentlemen's latter statement, but I do want him to know how terribly close we felt to the Negroes yesterday. We had one example of a white truck driver who stopped to pick up three of the priests who were walking after the demonstration to the Good Samaritan Hospital to get food, who, when they just happened almost, you know to say, "Well, no thanks. We would rather walk," were greeted with a stream of abuse. The car gunned off and they went on. About two blocks later they were stopped by a Negro gentleman and they got into his car and he took them to the Good Samaritan Hospital, the warmth of the negro community down there towards us was absolutely unbelievable. And we come back to Saint Louis with that same warmth.
Sr. Ernest Marie: I too felt very much at one with my Negro brother yesterday, but I also feel at one with my Negro brother in Saint Louis. I have had the opportunity to work with our Saint Louis Negroes. It has been a very heartening experience.